Angie's Rhapsody quilt takes 3rd place @ guild quilt show!

[Ruth C.]

I don't think the focus of the copyright laws are on whether someone makes money from someone else's design. They protect the original design from all uses. Making anything "derived from" the original (an exact image or recognizable as fairly close) is a violation of the copyright laws, unless the creator gave permission. That includes taking a photograph, and making a copy of a quilt even for personal use (I doubt changing the fabric would be different enough to not be a violation of the copyright laws). The thing is, most creators aren't going to spend money suing someone unless that person is making money from it.

[Ruth C.]

What you said makes sense, Ruth. I'm just wondering why anyone would bother to make a quilt that uses someone else's idea or someone else's quilt at all. There are all kinds of things you can do to a quilt that would change it enough not to violate the copyright (different thread, different technique, different fabrics). How much change makes it not a violation?

[Sandy F.]

Nancy, That is what I got from the Quilter's Newsletter article also. I thought more about the copyright issue after watching Beth Wheeler's show (and it could apply to any of the TQS Shows). If I take a photograph of a rose and make a quilt using Beth's technique, hopefully it will look something like her quilts because I used her technique, but would that be copyright infringement. It's my photograph but people would recognize it as Bethish.

And then you throw in fabric that has a copyright (like college fabrics) and I am afraid to do anything other than hide my quilts in my house. A friend ask me to make her a Orange and White quilt based on my Tennessee Temperance Quilt and use Tennessee Vol fabric on the back. She is going to pay me to make it. The pattern is from the late 1800's so that is not copyrighted but the Tennessee Vol fabric is. She is going to pay me to make the quilt. Would I be infringing on a copyright. It is very confusing.

Sandy

[Sandy F.]

I may be missing something but I have a hard time with idea that a company makes a fabric and copyrights it and that makes it illegal to use in a quilt. Why make a fabric if it can't be used. It would make more sense to me if a fabric copyright would prevent you from recreating the fabric, not using it. Now that assumes that laws make sense- which isn't always the case. It also assumes that I am not missing something, which also isn't always the case :lol: -so let me know if I am please.

Lisa

[Sandy F.]

Sandy, your friend purchased the fabric, right? When you purchase a licenced print you are paying for the limited right to use the print in a craft for personal use. So your friend has paid for the print and is paying you for your time and labor so she can have a quilt for her own use, and that is perfectly legal. Now if you purchased the licenced fabric and mass produced the quilts and tried to sell them at the mall then you would be infringing because the limited agreement only applies to personal use items. You have to have persmission for something like that.

[Annette R.]

Mandy, what you said about use of licensed fabric seems to be pretty right on. My major experience with copyright issues was when dh and I had a craft business where we made and sold handcrafted items. I drew pictures and then woodburned them onto slabs of wood. I started out doing wildlife. Most of the painting books which I often used for reference and inspiration said you could use the patterns for personal use or profit by MAKING SOMETHING but that any reproduction of the pattern for sale or other use was a violation of the copyright. If I used a photograph for my inspiration or to be sure the anatomy of an animal or bird was reasonably accurate, I always varied the setting where the animal or bird was or combined backgrounds from my own photographs with a bird I had drawn by looking at someone else's photographs. My pictures were definitely not direct copies and even when I was in the same show with the person who had taken the original picture, they never recognized them. You can't copyright an animal just your rendition of it in a drawing, photograph, painting. quilt etc.

I have asked various teachers of techniques about using their techniques in my own work or teaching similar techniques to others and have usually gotten positive responses. Most quilt teachers seem to be exceedingly generous and want others to benefit from what they learned in developing their techniques. Ricky is especially generous, I think. (I am not so sure I would have been as generous with the Bohemian Rhapsody that started this thread but was happy to hear his take on it)

I guess my best thought is if in doubt and you can find the originator of the idea or pattern, ask permission but otherwise I do not obsess about the copyright issue for my own work. I have never learned to follow a pattern well and usually change them at least ten times before I am done. LOL But I am much more cautious when I am teaching a technique or if I were to mass produce something for sale. (For heaven's sake don't mess with Disney, Department 56 or Precious Moments - they sue and/or confiscate at a drop of a hat if they think your work is any good and sometimes even if it is not).

Don't know if my thoughts make sense to anyone and I certainly open to hearing others opinions especially if you have had contradictory experiences. This is too crucial an area not to hear what others think and/or know.

Ann

[Eileen K.]

I think we have to take a step back from all the fear that is gathering here.
Manufacturers produce fabric to be used. A perfect example is Ricky's hand dyes. If we didn't use them, it could potentially hurt his business because of the law of supply and demand.

If you take a class from a nationally known teacher, in that class you are reproducing whatever quilt technique, pattern, etc. that they are teaching. By teaching the class, the teacher is giving implied permission, right?
If you then put that quilt in a local show, giving proper credit in the catalogue and on the card hanging with the quilt, I don't believe you're infringing.

If your guild wants you to teach that same class and you go ahead and make copies of your class materials, you are most certainly infringing.

Don't let the whole topic of copyright make you afraid to make quilts. That's not what the designers/creators intend by this law.

eileenkny

[Paula D.]

Well, my reaction to the copy of Ricky's quilt has surely stirred up the behive. But paranoia regarding copyright was never my intention. I don't think Ricky will contact his lawyers!!! The real issue with copyright is just one of profit. If you make money based on someone else's work or idea or design, this is definitely a NO NO. If you sell quilted Mickey Mouses, you will get a phone call!! If you copy a masterpiece, have at it. Enter it in a show? I'm not a supporter of that idea. Create a quilt from a published pattern? Yeah, I'm currently working on a Jan Krentz design. Copy a Hollis Chatelain masterpiece but putting in a picture of your uncle....nah.

[Paula D.]

Okay, this is my last whipping of this dead horse. Obviously, we've leanred a lot (or a little, if we're all as confused as I am) about copyrights and quilting. It's good that we are thinking about it anyway. Some think that the key word is "profit," but Ruth holds forth that profit is not always the issue. It's always best to give credit and certainly not claim an idea or a design as one's own. I hope that's enough for most professional quilt designers, because I think it would be very easy to get caught in a situation of having replicated (or even inadvertently represented) a portion of a design in one of my own quilts, especially if I was impressed by the quilt I saw. I hope we're not naive in thinking we're okay when we're not. Someone asked why one would make a like quilt or design; just change something to make it your own. But clearly that's not within the law. From the QN article:

"What if Suzie changes the colors and rearranges the blocks in the quilt, can she then make copies for sale?
A change of color scheme does not make the quilt original enough to take it out of Ann's copyright. Variations are the most difficult issue in the area of copyright. Whether changes are great enough to produce an original quilt, not infringing on another artist's design, is a question of fact to be decided case by case. The criteria for this determination is whether the work differs substantially from the original. Another test is to ask, would someone else looking at this quilt think it had been made by Ann?

Suzie's copies would probably be considered derivative works. Derivative works are quilts that share a similar element or theme, and one work derives from the other. Only Ann can make derivatives of her designs."

And about exhibiting a quilt made as a copy of another's design, even though the quilt in question was taught in a class (what about made from a pattern or a book? - What's the difference there?), here's from the QN article:

"Can Suzie enter the quilt in the local guild show or in Quilt National?
The right to publicly display work belongs to the copyright holder. However, a local exhibition of quilts usually has a limited number of people attending, and would not be considered an actionable violation, one which the court would consider. Entering a show that has worldwide coverage, or that publishes photos of its exhibit in a catalog, would be a definite no-no. Quilt National, Visions, the American Quilter's Society Show in Paducah, or the International Quilt Festival in Houston would all be examples of such shows."

I'm done now, hoping I don't break any laws in my quilting journey. Nancy

[Paula D.]

Ann your thoughts make perfect sense to me. I have also been in the arts/craft business for many years. I have not had any copyright issues myself but have seen many problem areas over the years. There are always issues that would need the help of a legal advisor to solve. You may use most any fabric to make something to sell except for licensed fabrics, like Disney or the others you mentioned. Disney makes clothes and blankets to sell from their own fabric so they don't want anyone to compete with them. If you have any doubts talk to the company to find out their policies. Quite a few years back a very well known production company decided they were tired of people making wood lawn ornaments of their comic charictures so they went around and sued many woodworkers. They also sued ceramic mold companies.
You can make items for personal use from any fabric and techniques cannot be copyrighted, only patterns and written words. I now teach fabric painting and I make my own patterns with directions and print them out. The reasons being copyright issues and I like making my own. When teaching someone else's patterns it is correct to have students purchase the pattern or book of the copyright holder. Copyrights can be confusing. When in doubt, ask questions.

[Judy M.]

I really appreciate Ricky's level-headed response to this issue. Angie's quilt is beautiful and I congratulate her on her winning ribbon! As far as copyrighted fabric goes, I think the copyright protects the design from being stolen by OTHER fabric companies and used to produce fabric, coffee mugs, notecards, etc. I'm sure the fabric companies are only interested in SELLING as much fabric to us quilters as they possibly can. I doubt they're upset if we put our quilts in shows made with THEIR fabric--that's free advertising for their fabrics! :wink:

[Ricky T.]

The copyright that is on fabrics - like college mascot and logo fabric - are there to protect them from being copied (reproduced) - not used. Each logo or mascot design is an original design created by someone - either that someone SOLD the design to the university, or they still own it (most likely they sold it). The owner can then "license" the design to a fabric company for use. The fabric company would pay the university for the design and that would be the main reason there is a © notation on the fabric.

I'm not a copyright lawyer, but I do know that techniques and methods cannot be copyrighted. For example, I sometimes use a free-form piecing method I call Caveman Quilting. I have a DVD on the subject that teaches you HOW to do this technique by making a stylized Chantelle Tulip. Anyone can learn the technique and use it. Many people create improvisational patchwork who have never watched my DVD. So the technique is not the issue. If someone were to teach improvisational patchwork - even if they learned it from my DVD, they would NOT violate the copyright. If they wrote their own instructions on how to do it - they WOULD NOT violate my copyright. If they choose to use my Chantelle Tulip design in their own instructions or class without first licensing it from me, they WOULD be in violation of copyright. If they made copies of the DVD and gave them out - or sold them, then they WOULD violate my copyright. If they used ONE DVD to teach a class and the class did not have their own copy of the DVD they WOULD violate the copyright.

Finally, music is another good analogy. Let's take Yesterday, first recorded by The Beatles. The song has a melody, words, and a basic chord structure. It has been recorded thousands of times - and if the song was not licensed and a "mechanical songwriter license" paid, the producers of the version have violated copyright. It can be done upbeat, blues, jazz, instrumental, and so on - but it is still Yesterday. None of those major elements keeps it from being recognized as Yesterday.

In quilting, a design is a design. A certain set of blocks with a certain setting is a distinctive design, Bohemian Rhapsody for instance. You can make a tiny version - a wall version - you can change the colors, the fabrics, paint it, or reconstruct it with clay. If it looks like Bohemian Rhapsody - it is Bohemian Rhapsody. Using the design without permission, especially for monetary gain, is a violation of copyright.

Again - I would not go after someone for not asking permission to make their copy quilt and put it in a show - even if they should have. I would most likely get lawyers involved if the "copy quilt" was patterned and published, put on mugs, or printed on post cards for sale, etc.

The best thing that has happened here is that you are thinking about copyright, but you should NOT be afraid. And - whether you think it is fair, right, or not - the laws are the laws and they are in place for a reason. "Sorry officer, I felt it was alright to shoot my husband."

[Jean H.]

Hi Ricky
I was going to say to you that you should copyright yourself but you cannot, you are truly 1 of a kind and cannot be reproduced.
So big hugs to you Ricky, thanks for all your time and inspiration......Jean in Kenosha, Wisconsin

[Ricky T.]

Hi Ricky
I was going to say to you that you should copyright yourself but you cannot, you are truly 1 of a kind and cannot be reproduced.
So big hugs to you Ricky, thanks for all your time and inspiration......Jean in Kenosha, Wisconsin

ops: blush ops:

[Paula D.]

A great teacher is a great teacher!