Alex's hand applique knot

[Nancy R.]

Hi Alex: in the 400 series Elly Sienkiewicz mentioned a tip on making a loop knot for starting hand appliqué taught to her by Wendy Grande. You said you taught Wendy. LOL. My question is would you be so kind as to explain the loop knot here. Elly was not clear in her demo how to do it. It looked like she brought the thread up from the back without a knot leaving a tail of a couple of inches and went back down close to the same hole. After that point she lost me. Thank you. Janet

[Nancy R.]

I meant to say it was how to begin hand embroidery without a knot. Janet

[Nancy R.]

I'm definitely not Alex, but from both of your comments it sounds as if you are refering to a 'waste knot' which is common in embroidery. What you do is put an ordinary knot in your usual method for hand sewing at the end of your thread, then you take the needle down into the fabric from the front in a position that you will be sewing over later. You then bring the needle back up where you want to start the sewing and sew towards the knot, when you get to the knot you cut it off, thus it is 'waste' and thrown away. To finish, run the needle under previous stitches and then trim. When you get braver, you can do the same technique without putting the waste knot in the end of the thread, but be prepared for accidentally pulling the thread out when you start. :wink:

If I can find the time, I will go back and watch the show you refer to and report back. By the way the show with Wendy Grande shows her doing a hand sewing knot, which works very well too.

[Margo C.]

I meant to say it was how to begin hand embroidery without a knot. Janet

Janet, Alex isn't able to monitor the forum, but you can trust Rosemary on stuff like this!

[Margo C.]

My mom used to say "Waste not, want not."

[Margo C.]

Thank you but it wasn't a waste knot. Elly brought a length of thread without a knot in it up from the back of the fabric to the right side of the fabric leaving a thread tail of a few inches on the back. She then inserted the needle back into the fabric from the right side of the fabric to the back very close to the first stitch. At this point there was still no knot. She mentioned a loop on the back and then had trouble doing the next step and things got confusing and she moved on.

[Rita C.]

I think I know what you are talking about. I hope I can explain it properly and apologies if not: Take your length of thread and double it over, then insert the cut ends of thread into the eye of the needle, this leaves you with a loop at the end of your strand of thread. You then insert the thread from the top of your work but leave a loop of about 1". Come back up a thread away from that loop and put the needle through the loop, pull your thread and you have a start without a knot. I think that's the way Ellie did it but she started on the underneath when she should have started on the top. I know that Alex did a demo of this in another programme but I just can't remember which one. Hope that helps.

Rosemary, thanks for the information about a waste knot - I didn't know about that one, will have to try it now.

[Rita C.]

Aaah - got it! Thanks Rita! what you are enquiring about is also known as a 'Larks head' knot
but in the usage you are talking about the sewing thread is represented by the purple and the fabric is represented by the blue.

I was shown a variation of this method for starting to sew on braces buttons inside trouser waistbands, whilst on Savile Row, but personally speaking, I am not keen on using a double thread, because I always seem to get in an uneven mess, and it doesn't seem to matter which way I double my thread up, it still tangles :?

I hope 'we' got there in the end :wink:

[Rita C.]

Thank you Rita! That makes sense. I think Elly got nervous and did it in reverse. I appreciate all input.

[Nancy R.]

I think I know what you are talking about. I hope I can explain it properly and apologies if not: Take your length of thread and double it over, then insert the cut ends of thread into the eye of the needle, this leaves you with a loop at the end of your strand of thread. You then insert the thread from the top of your work but leave a loop of about 1". Come back up a thread away from that loop and put the needle through the loop, pull your thread and you have a start without a knot. I think that's the way Ellie did it but she started on the underneath when she should have started on the top. I know that Alex did a demo of this in another programme but I just can't remember which one. Hope that helps.

Hi Rita -

I remember Alex showing this knot and at the time didn't understand why you want to put it on the top rather than the back. Can you explain that? I've always used this with cross stitch when I have an even number of strands, but always put it on the back so it wouldn't show.

Thanks!

Nancy

[Rita C.]

Hi Nancy, are you sure we are talking about the same kind of knot? This is an embroiderers knot and the reason for doing it is so that there is no knot showing through the back of the work as embroidery is usually done on one layer of fabric. I think the reason for starting from the top is that it means that you are starting your stitch from exactly where you did the loop so there is no knot and there are no gaps. It makes for a very smooth start. I have taken some photos that I hope will explain the process better:
1. Thread the needle with the two loose strands going through the eye of the needle

2.Leave a loop of about 1" and come back up through the fabric one thread away from the loop

3.Thread the needle through the loop and pull tight

So on the back there is a barely visible stitch. And you are ready to start stitching on the top.

[Nancy R.]

Hi Rita -

Yep, this is exactly what I do for cross stitch, but from the back. I thread the needle in the same way, then bring the needle up through the first hole leaving the loop on the back. Put the needle back down through the second hole and through the loop to secure it without a knot. In cross stitch you never knot, but this is easier than holding the tail on the back and stitching around it, especially in a place where you have scattered stitches. We go from the back so that the little loop around the thread doesn't show on the top. That's why I'm confused that you and Alex leave the loop on the top where it shows. But it might just be that, as usual, I'm over thinking it and will just have to try it sometime.

Thanks!

Nancy

[karen f.]

Nancy when I've used this knot it was also from the back on embroidery to avoid a messy back on the piece. I suppose it works either way but I don't get the reason for doing it on the right side. I must be missing something.

[Rita C.]

Nancy, I don't think there is really a right or wrong side to start this on. I would do it from the top because that is the way I was taught. Heaven forbid their might be embroidery police too! :roll:

[Nancy R.]

And I will definitely not start the policing effort!! I'm very anti-craft-police! Thanks again!! You guys are the best!!